My Conversation with White Supremacists, and Why It’s Closer to Home Than You Think
(Trigger warning: This piece contains stories of Racism, bigotry, and hatred and may be traumatizing for some to read. Avoid if needed.)
I had a 35-minute conversation with these young men on Sunday. I was on my way home from Mazama after a lovely weekend in the mountains celebrating my anniversary with Brad. I dropped him off with his dad and brother for a boy’s trip, and was singing along to Taylor Swift when I saw these guys hanging gigantic signs — the size of king-size sheets — over the freeway overpass (just east of Fall City, WA).
The signs read…
“They want to replace US”
“Stop WHITE Genocide”
“White lives matter”
First of all…Are you fucking kidding me?
Secondly…“Who is THEY?”
I was so curious I took the next off-ramp and drove back to get a closer look and chat them up. I HAD to know what they believe and why they believe it. What were they so fearful about? What were they so mad about? Why were they wearing masks and all-black clothing?
I drove the 2 miles back to their exit, thinking of ALL the questions I wanted to ask them, and also realizing that the color of my skin was the ONLY reason I felt remotely safe approaching them.
I hoped they would be kinder than they looked.
I illegally parked my car and walked up cautiously but with a friendly smile to disarm them and hopefully avoid confrontation.
Most of them looked to be between the ages of 18 and 25.
I told them I didn’t want any trouble. I was just genuinely curious about what they believed and what inspired them to spend their Sunday out here.
They asked if I was “with them.”
“How about you tell me what you’re all about, and then I’ll let you know,” I told them.
“Do you think white lives matter?”
“Yes, I do. I also think that Black Lives Matter and Asian lives matter, and immigrants’ lives matter…and all the lives matter. Do YOU?”
“We aren’t against them. We are just against white genocide.”
“Well, I can agree with that. I’m against genocide too. But, do you SEE white genocide happening around here? Is this a problem? Are white people in the USA being killed en mass based on their skin color?”
“Well, no. Not exactly.”
“Ok, so what are you worried about?”
That’s when they talked and talked and talked and talked. As quickly as they could. About all the things they wanted me to know.
And I listened.
Secret societies. Plots. The “Great Replacement Theory.” The Kalergi Plan. And so much more.
It was fascinating (and Disturbing). And so so sad. All I could think about was “How did these guys go from sweet little innocent baby boys to THIS?”
They told me about the “plot” dems have to replace white people.
“How exactly do you think Dems are going to do that? And why would they want to, even if they could?”
They told me Dems are trying to suffocate the middle class through economic depravity so we will have fewer kids.
It just got crazier from there.
When I told them, I believed that you should be able to marry and love and have kids with whomever you like. They did not actively push back but I could see from their expressions they were not “with me.” So I asked if THEY could ever love or marry a non-white person. They didn’t have to contemplate. It was an emphatic, “Oh no. Definitely not.”
I asked three different men the same question, just to be sure they were aligned in this ideology–not just one or two “crazies”. They all gave me the same answer.
I felt sick.
I asked them who they would be casting their vote for this November. (Not wanting to make any assumptions) and they quickly answered as if it were obvious, and I was some kind of idiot. “Trump,” they said proudly.
They went on to claim that part of the “plot” to reduce population growth among the white population was to push “gay” and “transgender” on people. I told them nobody had any interest in “pushing” anything. It’s more a matter of live and let live. Love and let love. All people have equal value and a right to their choices and freedom.”
But they weren’t having it. They were certain it was all part of a calculated plot to reduce the population of white people.
I asked about the “economic depravity” they spoke of…as a strategy to reduce white population growth.
they said it’s obvious if you look at the “fact” that “colored people” are taking all the white people’s jobs.
Game on. Oh no you didn’t…
Now they were in MY lane. You want to talk facts…I KNOW these FACTS. Inside and out.
But before I jumped in with any such facts, I had a few more questions.
“What is your evidence? That white peoples jobs are being stolen?”
“All you have to do is look around at companies and see that there are people of color in leadership positions, “ they told me.
What the actual fuck?
…as if the only possible way any person of color could have gotten their position was through some sort of thievery, handout, or special accommodation.
“Do you think talent and brilliance only exists in white people?” It was an honest question. And they reluctantly gave me an honest answer, “well…no”.
Ok then…I thought maybe we were getting somewhere.
“Have you ever entertained the possibility that a person of color could have EARNED the job, through their experience, education, talent, and brilliance?”
“I guess…maybe”.
“You guess? Or, YES?”
“Yes.”
“OK, then why are you so certain that white people’s jobs are being stolen? Why does that job ‘BELONG’ to you or me because of our whiteness? Why doesn’t that job belong to the most qualified person?
And that’s when it looked like their heads might explode. These guys looked at me like, “Hmm, I guess we never thought about that.”
They told me they believed in a meritocracy (the best person with the best qualifications should get the job). I agreed.
But again, I asked them if they could conceive of a non-white person BEING the most qualified.
They were quiet. It was interesting to watch them hesitate. Refusing to say the quiet part out loud, in the face resistance, and someone with “alternative facts”.
I told them that a “meritocracy” is good in theory, but history has shown that leaving it to a “meritocracy” is actually code for (not all but many in business)…to basically THINK they are promoting the most qualified candidate, but in reality, it often goes something like this…
“I’m going to promote the people who look like me, smell like me, are educated at the same institutions as me, grew up in the same neighborhoods as me, worked for the same companies as me, are the same gender as me, who I like and feel comfortable with.” That’s what people refer to as ‘the boys club’”… and the evidence is pretty clear that there IS a Boys Club.
“Not necessarily consciously,” I told them. “I’m not one to believe in conspiracy theories, so I don’t think people are rubbing their hands together somewhere in a back room asking how they keep the women and POC out,” I quipped, “but the data is pretty hard to discount.”
They had nothing to say.
But they also looked a bit confused. It was clear they could not imagine a scenario where a person of color could BE the best qualified.
That’s called racism.
I asked them if they’d seen the data on promotion velocity, sliced by race.
They had not.
I’m not entirely sure they understood the question.
So, I informed them there was a hot-off-the-press 70-page report by McKinsey that could break it down for them. I shared the brief synopsis and told them it could be confirmed with their very own eyeballs. The report showed — in brief — that it is STILL white men (and next to them, white women) who are being paid more and promoted more quickly, based on data from hundreds of USA companies (including many of the Fortune 500).
One guy looked so confused (and interested) that I thought he might actually be persuadable.
My heart ached.
I asked them if they thought there was ANY possibility that laws like affirmative action, anti-discrimination laws, and equal rights protections, could be meant to DRIVE greater equality and equitable access to jobs, rather than disrupt it.
Nope. That had not occurred to them either.
Why? Because someone had taught these guys that they were the true victims of racism. That they have something to fear.
Sounds like anyone else you know?
PEOPLE…
What are we going to do about this? No matter who wins this election, we have a really big problem on our hands. A runaway train of hatred, racism, and cult-like behavior.
You may think you do not participate in this. Certainly not like these guys, I’m sure.
But…
How many of YOU have sat by and listened to people in your own companies, families, or friend circles talk about “DEI hires” and said nothing to combat it? Maybe even agreed…” yeah, DEI is a bunch of BS.” Or “Yeah, It’s not fair” or “I believe in a meritocracy” without distinguishing how broken most supposed meritocracies are.
Silence is agreement folks.
So DON’T stay silent when ignorant, culturized, brainwashed, people like this spew untruths and hate. Stand up. Fight back.
Mitch Shepard is an applied behavioral scientist, an author, a passionate world traveler, a trusted coach & adviser to some of the world’s top leaders, a sought-after speaker, Chief Truth-teller, a recovering Catholic, and an ass-kicker of cancer.
